Talk:Josip Broz Tito
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 | A fact from Josip Broz Tito appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 1 November 2015. The text of the entry was as follows:
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Incorrect
[change source]Many of the things stated in the article are incorrect, especially the part about ethnic cleansing and Tito being a pan-slavic ultranationalist, also, Tito could not have been one of the richest men on the Balkans because all that he used (his houses, villas, yachts, etc.) were state property. I already corrected the false facts once, but somebody seems to have altered it again.
- There are precise references and bibliography about tito's ethnic cleansing, money and crazy slav-nationalism. You are the one who writes falsities and lies. Shame on you!
- The sources seem to be very POVish. I have restored what I believe to be the more neutral version. Do NOT revert me without discussing it here first. Thank you, Griffinofwales (talk) 21:02, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
- all sentences are sourced very much: Broz was a real criminal! Refrain your POV action.--Pio (talk) 11:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Tito and Titoism
[change source]I want to add these writings about Tito and his Titoism (may be someone will add sections to the simple wikipedia article):
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Tito and Titoism[change source]Titoism is a Totalitarian political system that was part of the former Yugoslavia.[1][2][3] A single party, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia and its leader Josip Broz Tito, ruled the country.[4][5][6] According to Webster’s Dictionary, the political, economic, and social policies associated with Tito is called Titoism.[7] Josip Broz Tito was a member of the Soviet Police-NKVD and the Soviet Communist Party. The NKVD executed the rule of terror and political repression in and out of the Soviet Union.[8] Tito and his comrades set up KGB style police units in the former Yugoslavia (UDBA and OZNA). These organisations conducted political repression on a grand scale.[9][10][11] The regime relaxed its authoritarian rule from the 1960s onwards. Communist Propaganda & Cult of Personality Within the Former Yugoslavia[change source]The Yugoslav Communist State propaganda machine shared much with the Soviet Union. The Soviet format [12] was imposed and then slightly modified. Tito's cult of personality was modelled on this doctrine.[13][14][15] The Yugoslav Communist State used youth indoctrination (Union of Pioneers of Yugoslavia), which were all too similar to the Soviet Union (Young Pioneer of the Soviet Union). The People's Republic of China had a similar state run youth movement. Communist political, historical and philosophical courses were all part of general education. These courses can be found in any Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s. Encyclopaedias were written in the same style as the Great Soviet Encyclopedia. They were used as propaganda for Titoism and Socialism in the former Yugoslavia.[16] Media and arts were used as a powerful means of propaganda and were all placed under heavy censorship. Josip Broz Tito and the communist revolution were the main subject of this government. Images, monuments, towns, street names, endless awards were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry[17] were created. Financially a huge amount of resources were used to keep the Communist propaganda and political activities running on a daily basis.[18][19] Some of the images, monuments, town names and street names associated with the former Yugoslavian Government have since been removed. This started after the fall of the Berlin Wall and after the break up of Yugoslavia. Residences[change source]From 1945 onwards a series of residences were either nationalized or newly-built for Tito's use.
Ethnic cleansing and Concentration Camps[change source]Ethnic cleansing of Germans, Hungarians and Italians (Foibe massacres) were carried out in Yugoslavia.[20][21][22][23] There were 24 422 children [24] in the camps in the former Yugoslavia in the late 1940s. Frank Waddams a British Government representative who had lived outside of Belgrade, said: “He knew first hand of ten concentration camps and had talked with inmates from nearly all of them. “ The tale is always the same, he said “ Starvation, overcrowding, brutality and death condition, which make Dachau and Buchenwald mild by comparison. Many Slovenes who were released from Dachau at the end of the war came home only to find themselves in a Slovene camp within a few days. It is from these people that the news has come that the camps are worse than Dachau.” Out of a Slovene population of 1,200,000, Waddams believes that 20,000 to 30,000 were imprisoned." [25] On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech Harry Truman (the President of USA) stated: "I am told that Tito murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator" [26][27] Assassinations and purges were organised to eliminate individuals who were deemed anti-Yugoslavian or who were publicly critical of communism in Yugoslavia. Noted victims are Bruno Busic, Stjepan Djurekovic and Andrija Hebrang.[28][29][30] Goli Otok[change source]Goli Otok, a notorious prison on the Croatian coast (former Yugoslavia’s Gulag). Austria-Hungarian government set up the prison during WW1. The communist authorities of Yugoslavia in 1949 made into a high-security, top secret prison and labour camp. Until 1956 it was used to incarcerate political prisoners. They included alleged enemies of the communist state, other Communist Party members, regular citizens accused of exhibiting any anti-communist behaviour and Stalinists. Inmates were regularly beaten and humiliated.[31][32][33][34] The prison inmates were forced to do heavy labour in a stone quarry. Other camps that were used by the regime are KPH Zenica, Stare Gradiska and Sveti Grgur. Franjo Tudman[change source]Franjo Tudman who was the first President of Croatia, was sentenced to prison for his political activities in the former Yugoslavia.[35] Milovan Djilas[change source]Milovan Djilas a prominent Yugoslav Communist politician, latter theorist and author was imprisoned by the Yugoslav Government for being critical of the regime.[36]  Commission on Concealed Mass Graves in Slovenia[change source]The Government of the Republic of Slovenia (a former republic of Yugoslavia) created "Commission on Concealed Mass Graves in Slovenia" in 2005. In October 2009 they issued their report to the Government of Slovenia. Significant factual statements came to light, concerning Yugoslavia in the aftermath of WW2. The Jutarnji newspaper reported on the 01/10/2009 commissions find, in all it is estimated that there are 100 000 victims in 581 mass graves.[37] Barbarin Rov is one of the many sites. Investigation of the site began August 2008. They found around 350 unidentified bodies. The victims, among were also women who were stripped naked before being killed. By November 2009, 726 bodies where removed from the site. In Tezno, a district of Slovenia's city Maribor, the remains of thousands of victims of purges were found.[38] Kocevski Rog is a another site where thousands of people were executed.[39] The British author John Corsellis, a who served in Austria with the British Army, has written a historic book of these events, called "Slovenia 1945: Memories of Death and Survival after World War II".[40] In neighbouring Croatia (a former republic of Yugoslavia) there are similar sites where mass murder was committed by Yugoslav Partisans. Jazovka is a pit that was rediscovered in 1990, after the fall of communism in Croatia. The pit is located in Zumberak and was already locally known. The bodies of thousands of civilians and Croatian soldiers were dumped their during and after the Second World War. In Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal [41] he stated, that Tito asked the "Croatian Home Guard" to surrender or face the consequences of not surrendering. After the war ended POWs who did not surrender were slaughter on mass, estimates are about 100 000 victims in total. These were the victims of the notorious Bleiburg and Way of the Cross massacres.[42][43][44][45] European Public Hearing on “Crimes Committed by Totalitarian Regimes"[change source]Reports and proceedings of the 8th of April European public hearing on “Crimes Committed by Totalitarian Regimes”,[46] organised by the Slovenian Presidency of the Council of the European Union (January–June 2008) and the European Commission, stated the following:  (a) Titoism and Totalitarianism: [47]
(b) Mass killings without court trials: “The Main Headquarters of the Yugoslav Army had already called attention to respecting the Geneva Convention on 3rd of May in its order on the treatment of prisoners of war. However, despite this injunction, both prisoners of war and civilians were killed on mass at the end of May and in the first half of June 1945 in Slovenia. Tito’s telegram on respecting the Geneva Convention was later revoked; however, it could only be revoked by the person who issued it in the first place, i.e. Tito himself.[48] The post-war killings without a trial were on a massive scale and were executed in 1945 and 1946. Hidden graves that numbered 581, were found on the territory of Slovenia. Dr Joze Dezman described the fundamental characteristics of the post-Second World War crimes: "Killing civilians and prisoners of was after Second World War is the greatest massacre of unarmed people of all times in Slovenian territory. Compared to Europe, the Yugoslav communist massacres after the Second World War are probably right after the Stalinist purges and the Great Famine in the Ukraine. The number of those killed in Slovenia in spring of 1945 can now be estimated at more than 100,000, Slovenia was the biggest post- War killing site in Europe. It was a mixture of events, when in Slovenia there are retreating German units, collaborator units, units of Independent State of Croatia, Chetniks and Balkan civilians; more than 15,000 Slovenia inhabitants were murdered as well. Because of its brevity, number of casualties, way of execution and massiveness, it is an event that can be compared to the greatest crimes of communism and National Socialism." International Law Observer Media[change source]
See also[change source]
References[change source]
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Inappropriate
[change source]This above section would be inappropriate to add here (as you have already done to the article and I have since reverted). It is a massive text that creates a point of view unbalance here. Please stop trying to give undue weight within this article. Either way (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
- The problem here is that you, Either Way, want only posts balanced IN FAVOR of your beloved Tito. But he was a criminal (and there are plenty of evidences and proofs), even if he was astute and showed only his face of angel......to stupids who believed his lies! J. H.
Tito and his similitude with Ugandan dictator Idi Amin
[change source]There are many areas of Tito's behaviour and personality that are similar to the ones of dictator Idi Amin of Uganda. May be should be added to the article (like in the Spanish wikipedia's Tito: ([1]).--LM (talk) 23:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Criticism section
[change source]I have removed the criticism section here because it creates a major inbalance to this article. Over half the article is about the these criticisms. This is a POV problem. We need to be presenting this article from a neutral point of view. I think the English Wikipedia article approaches the subject more appropriately right now. I suggest we use that as a model. Either way (talk) 00:45, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
- The en.wiki is fully one-sided, showinging Tito as a hero. It is shame for wikipedia what is allowed to do by a group of yugoslavian marxists, who deliberately erase any references to the massacres of hundreds of thousands of people by Tito and his communists. Even the reference to Truman is erased! Shame on you, Either way. RR41
Dictator
[change source]I do not believe we should have an entire section and the lead to the article calling the subject a dictator. This is not reporting it from a neutral point of view. Dictator has connotations and implications to it. We should report the facts. He was the president of the country. Looking at the English Wikipedia article, I see no mention of him as dictator, so I think we should follow suit. Thoughts? Either way (talk) 04:04, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
- Agree. Griffinofwales (talk) 20:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
- I agree to change even the lead of the article calling and describing Hitler as a Dictator.He should only be called Fuhrer and Tito only be called "Dear Father of Yugoslavija". Both are wonderful persons and I am sure EitherWay and Griffinofwales agree on it. R41
two important points
[change source]I added integration of LM but there are two important points:
- version of en.wiki is wrong
- Broz was a mass murderer
I consider several sources removing by user Either way a disruption or vandalism because triple ethnic cleansing, democide and cult of personality made by Broz are sourced very much in article!!!! Overmore I, user Goran, LM, Researcheronly, San Feliciano and various IPs agree on same article which shows crimes against humanity made by this dictator. Stop vandalism of sources removing: in next edit I restore all valid sources.--Pio (talk) 11:59, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Why has been erased Truman's declaration?
[change source]I don't understand why has been erased this:
On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech Harry Truman (the President of USA) personally stated:
"I am told that Tito murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator" (from the book Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees)
Wikipedia is unbalanced toward Tito's supporters, like admin Either Way? J.H.
- Yes, it is NOT balanced! --Researcheronly (talk) 00:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Kansan, I believe you made a mistake reverting to what wrote Either Way (who seems to be well connected (or the same?) to fanatic pro-Tito user:DIREKTOR of the english wikipedia). Do you know that there are some fanatic supporters of dictator Tito, like Either way, who erase all references showing his many bloody crimes?. They are all related to a group of Yugoslavian user in en.wikipedia, who promote only POVs pro-Tito and -shamefully- erase everything against him. Please, read here (References) to have an idea of the crimes of Tito. We need a simple wikipedia with NPOV and not showing only the few achievements of Tito: can you imagine (for example) the "Hitler" article without references to the Holocaust, and only showing the few achievements Hitler did? Regards. Tom.
Permanent vandalism by User:Orashmatash
[change source]He is acting with this page like it's his own private article. Why? Because he reverted Good faith referenced edit that was a correct fact. And, once again, Tito wasn't a dictator he is commonly known as Marshal of Yugoslavia, look at his article on the English Wikipedia for more facts on to. Please stop, for goodness of Wikipedia. --195.252.67.184 (talk) 12:00, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- I've left you a warning on your talk page about these accusations against this user. If your edit was reverted, discuss it with the reverting user. Find out what that user's problem with your edit was and get a consensus to add it back. Skipping the discussion part is simply edit warring. Osiris (talk) 13:21, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Neutrality disputed
[change source]User that started this article and many more of them declared themselves "anti-titoists", and inserted their POV in Tito's biography. That's obivos, and needs to be unbend. Thank you. --195.252.67.184 (talk) 12:07, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
- Too many times supporters of Tito erase evidences about the murders of Tito in his Yugoslavia, like the declarations of US president Truman. Wikipedia must be neutral....or will not be a REAL encyclopedia! H.W.